I LIKE MY TOAST WITH BUTTER AND JAM

In news that surprises nobody, Stan Brock is gonzo.

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64 Responses

  1. KA shouldn’t be available for comment. He should be packing too. He’s not as bad as Greenspan, but who cares? I don’t think anyone has confidence in him either.

  2. In other, equally surprising news, the sun will set in the west this evening.

  3. This really was an exercise in inevitability.

  4. So Mike, let’s hear it. Who should Army hire?

  5. They’re going to look for an option coach instead of looking for the best coach. It’s a real grab-bag. I have no idea who’s even a realistic candidate at this point.

  6. WP should get the best coach, but also get one who is dedicated to hiring an OC who is an option guru or has an offense that can compete. They may be looking for a Cal Poly coach.

    This is a good time to recycle Phat’s column/comments about how Div IAA and II are the creative labs for coaching.

  7. The cal poly guy’s name is being tossed around. He’s a defensive guy but they run PJ’s offense with success. He was DC at Hawaii when PJ was OC, and I think they did staff visits to Navy in the PJ days to learn the offense. Would be a good get for Army, his name was also in the mix for the Washington job, but let’s see where it goes. If I’m that guy I give it another year and let everyone fall in love with what PJ’s doing at GT, and leverage that for a bigger, better job than a salvage project at Army, but that’s me.

  8. I’m a part of the small minority who thinks the option isn’t necessary to win at a service academy. West Point’s administration does not share my opinion.

  9. Mike,
    You might be correct about that, but someone has to prove otherwise before anyone will think otherwise.

  10. In this case I’m fine with the belief, because it might keep Army from hiring someone good.

  11. True. I think the WP admin is going to try to copy everything Navy did with the PJ model, as closely as they can. Since they can’t clone PJ they’ll probably go for the next best thing I think, which is a PJ protege or somebody who coached with him. But there seems to be no end to Army’s ineptitude, so it’ll be interesting to see where they go.

  12. But isn’t it in Navy’s best interest for Army to be good — or at least better than they are now? Army / Navy game ratings and all that?

  13. It would be interesting to see if Army goes after one of PJ’s coaches at GT. I doubt it but who knows? I thought there was something in the NAAA contracts about going to other SAs but that may not be true.

  14. We’ll see what happens to the ratings when it’s the only game on TV next year.

  15. Good to a point, maybe competitive is a better word. Definitely not carbon copy, where we’re running the same offense, recruiting the same type players and playing the same schedule. I wasn’t crazy about the way that went.

  16. I had an argument about this after Saturday’s game, and I thought, “Well, he’s only had two years and one year in a brand new offense which got better as the year went on.” A friend stepped in and said, “Yeah, they held a gun to his head to get him to run that offense, now they can pull the trigger.”

    The 2000 years are looking like a lost decade for Army football. Navy might have had some bad years, but having an administration (Chet) to move in swiftly and make decisions saved this fate from hitting Annapolis.

  17. That’s true. Still, more people would tune in and stay tuned in if Army doesn’t roll over in the first five minutes.

  18. FWIW, ratings for Army-Navy held steady this year compared to last year. Not good, but at least they didn’t drop.

  19. Shock and awe- haha

    By the way a few days after the game the local papers were screaming big back page banners to BRING BACK SUTTON- yeah sure thats happening.
    Bring on the next victim.
    I said it would be 10 years for them to close the gap?
    Make it another 20 now at the rate they are going.

  20. Gary,
    There was 1 article in the THR on bringing back Sutton.

  21. And I wouldn’t exactly call it “screaming,” either.

  22. Mike – glad to see you posting on GOMIDs today.

  23. A short-term phenomenon…

  24. WP needs to get rid of Anderson to effect any kind of long-term fix to their football problems. Until that happens, I think they’ll just be on the craptrain treadmill.

  25. DJ,

    Technically (or mathematically take your choice) 2000 is not part of the first decade of the 21st Century, its the last year in the decade of the 90’s so it’s Army football since 2001, which makes it a little worse I think.

    But then I was one of the lonely voices crying in the wind that the new millennium did not begin on Jan 1, 2000. It began on Jan 1, 2001.

  26. Hey, they didn’t roll over in the first 5 minutes in 2007, it was closer to the end of the 1st half. In 2006 they held a lead in the 3rd qtr (I think).

  27. Hiring a coach for any sport at any school is a crap-shoot. At a service Academy it’s even worse because of the “culture issues”. I hope they do well, but even some of us had doubts about PJ early in the first season and he’d been a winner and had USNA experience. AF was able to go into it’s pool of coaching grads and draw an “ace”. After 12 years in the wilderness, Army doesn’t have any equal experience pool to go after. I wish them mostly well but the odds are stacked against them.

  28. AF has been growing their own coaches for 20 years, at taxpayer expense.

  29. Video of the firing:

  30. The Army program has fallen so far that I think a lot of the names that are being tossed around would think long and hard before getting involved with that mess.

    It also cracks me up when people talk about following the “PJ model”. What’s that? The “PJ model” pretty much starts like this, “Hire one of the top 5 coaches in the country……….

    Yeah, that’s easy to do!

  31. Ok beg to differ guys when the bold black letters say BRING BACK SUTTON- that is newspaper for screaming and their loyal beat writer wrote the article.
    Yes 1 newspaper but its the ONLY one that covers anything for Army.

  32. Also maybe they can get Fisher DeBerry?

  33. Bold black letters in newspapers are called “headlines.”

  34. I think it important for WP to follow the Navy process that got PJ(no guarantee it would be successful then either), but… I was familiar with it from discussions with people involved. First and foremost it was run and managed by a strong AD, Chet. Second, Admiral had no day to day or executive priviledges. He was an advisor and final ok(obviously this is an extreme analysis of Adm role but he only got involved at end of process (final 2 or 3 guys) rubber stamp almost). Search committee was well selected(Adm’s and Gen’ls who played FB and had admin jobs at Navy, not stuck with back in my day attitudes, money’ed alumni). This calls for a radical shift in thought at WP.
    Do we really think that their Gen’l will delegate this responsibility as much as our Adm did? Is their AD anywhere near Chet’s stature and ability? Can their search committee think anything beyond “we are at war!” mentality as a defining goal of the FB program?
    I just feel that the institutional thought barriers are too great for them to find someone who can succeed. Does anyone think that PJ came to Navy without a good feel that he would be THE MAN running almost everything regarding the FB program? PJ had that from day 1 even with a bad first year. To the admin at WP, Duty, Honor, Country does not leave too much whiggle room for a FB coach. Again, a radical shift in attitude is necessary. Based on above differences between Navy way and WP attitudes, they will either get an “name” but no realistic plan for success or Sutton with his plan. If they get a good option guy I would be shocked.

  35. It is what you say it is.

  36. I think they “missed the boat”, when they did not get Solich. Of course, he should not have been available. Much like Army should no have fired Sutton is the first place. That’s my $.02, and probably not worth that much.

  37. Ellerson from Cal poly would be my first choice. If he doesn’t want to move I would consider Brian Bohannon Young guy in mid to late 30s Very, knowledgeable, enthusiastic has been with Johnson at Georgia Southern, Navy and now Georgia Tech. Knows and believes in option football. A great recruiter is south for Navy.
    I do agree with Mike that the most important thing is hiring the right coach. Jim Young was the last successful Army coach and was a passing guru before he came to WP. He was successful at Army not just because he instituted the wishbone it was that he’s a hall of fame coach. The flexbone/spread option is now the template for SA success. I like the offense so that is why I recommend the two canidates above. It’s not necessary for success however. I’m sure if an assistant decided to run the Wing T as long as he was the second coming of Tubby Raymond it would be successful

  38. Really – whats it gonna matter? They could dig up Earle Blaike and Doc and Glenn and it wont make any difference.

  39. I’m a part of the small minority who thinks the option isn’t necessary to win at a service academy. West Point’s administration does not share my opinion.

    To paraphrase Stan Brock… and how many national championships does the USMA administration have right now?

    Crazy times… TO was part of the consulting team for the Ross hire… pretty sure he was the lone voice arguing for Solich… and now I’m hearing Turner Gill’s name being mentioned. Yeah, right… THAT’S going to happen.

    Unless the Supe can figure out how to grow grapes in the Hudson Valley, Ellerson’s not going to leave SLO for any amount of money.

    Anderson sounds more like Michael Scott every day.

  40. I hear Tommy Bowden is available.

  41. Glad we didn’t fire PJ after going 2-10 in his first season (true, his second season was great). Didn’t Army only shift to the triple option this year. Give the guy one more year.

  42. Army’s problems go far beyond their offensive scheme. Yes they made a good call in going with the option. I see 2 major problems: 1) You can’t call an option offense without any previous knowledge of the option. I watched them play Texas A&M and they played great, probably should have won the game. However, every other game it was almost like Brock was saying “see told you option wasn’t the answer”. What I mean by that is he and coaches never seemed to make adjustments.
    2) Army players are slow. Both Navy and Air Force are getting better pure athletes. Army’s players are slow, especially on offense. Navy and Air Force have figured something out with the whole recruiting process that apparently Army is still searching for.

  43. Sovie just ran it back for a TD again on Wired

    goosebumps still present

  44. jimbear,

    Tubby, as you might know, still show up for the Delaware home games and still paints pictures of the seniors. This must have been a long UofD season for him given the lack of offense they had.

    What ever Army does do, I really hope it makes them competitive. TV audience aside, I want to beat very good Army teams.

  45. Firstly, for at least this part of my blab – we need to make sure that our football coaching staff stays in tact. I’m pretty sure it will. Hopefully Bohannon (sp?) and Monken will think it better to remain with PJ at GT for a while longer, continue to enjoy and learn and grow; then at the right time go for upward mobility with a more attractive head coaching offer at a BCS school. Given Army’s current situation, I don’t care how good of a coach I think I might be, I would not pursue the Army job. It appears to be a mess from highest levels, to AD, to head coach, to coaching staff, to players.

    I think a key part of our football success, and overall athletics success clearly starts with Chet. Extremely high degree of energy, vision, knowledge, and organizational skills. His coming in and then shortly thereafter bringing PJ to Annapolis was key for us. PJ – what can I say? A coach that is extremely knowledgeable, high energy, discipline, no-nonsense, TEAM, option offense, etc. Knows how to put together a strong coaching staff, recruit the best available (for us) fast athletes, practice, plan for, and execute football games. We’re of course fortunate to have had had him here at Navy for a while, and of course more fortunate that Coach Niumat and most of the PJ staff remained at Navy. Until Army is able to correct the problems that exist from top to bottom that I’ve outlined above, I am afraid they will continue to languish. I am the type that does root for the other service academies, I do want to see them do well – except when they’re playing us. Got accepted at several civilian schools, and at WP, but I made the right choice and went to Navy. J

    Getting back to JFK and Army-Navy, the first game attended was the 1967 game. As a young whipper-snapper (sp?) J, I remember the place was HUGE, and very Gothic/ANCIENT looking. (I am now also gothic and ancient-looking.) J Looked like a place for battles. Anyway, extremely cold, lots of snow on the ground. Mids and Woops firing snowballs at each other. Army was highly favored because of its record, and was looking to get to 8-2 – and hopefully go to the Sugar Bowl. Some of Army’s players and Coach had been highly boastful during the previous week, and that attitude was evident at the warm-up’s before the game. During the warm-ups, the bozo that was riding the Army Mule kept going back and forth from sideline-to-sideline, riding between the path of Navy’s passing warm-up’s. The Mids did not flinch …. and several times the Mule came close to getting plunked by a pass in the snout, or other locations (and Navy QB John Cartwright was firing the ball). Wish it would’ve happened – I would have laughed my A#%& off! I had heard from some of the Mids that I ran into that week, and they told me that they were confident that Navy could win. (OK, identity hint, I was a Navy junior and had been to all of the home games.). Navy had played a TOUGHER SCHEDULE and better caliber opponents that year, including wins over Penn State and Syracuse (back the Orange was still very much a power, had Larry Csonka, etc.). Lee Corso, back then an offensive assistant coach at Navy, modified the offense for the game and almost exclusively ran I-formation and Power I-formation. Most of the runs were between the tackles (gaping holes), mixing in some well timed passes, and Navy won 19-14. As the game wound down, Brigade began chanting: Sugar Bowl, Sugar Bowl ha, ha, ha. Repeat ………..Repeat ……….

    I hope that the annual “Civil War” continues to be visible and valued by our great Nation, and that Navy, Army, and Air Force continue to pursue excellence without arrogance. I like that one. J

    Forgot to mention in my first blog entry, very nice job and thank you for doing this Mike. Best regards to all fellow goats and Navy Blue & Gold. GO NAVY!!!!!!!

  46. To JDJMilford. I last heard about Tubby Raymond when he endorsed Keeler for HC. I’m glad to hear he’s still in good health and following the program. He is legend and I wish him the best.

  47. There’s always Lou Holtz. Could anyone stand his pressers about running a wishbone??

  48. Curious- how bad were the ratings for this years Army -Navy game? They must have been miniscule?

  49. Game rating/share
    SEC Championship 4.4/9
    USC-UCLA 4.5/11
    Virginia Tech-Miami 3.5/10
    Big 12 Championship 3.1/6
    Army Navy 2.4/7

  50. Not bad. I am sure the move to the second weekend will make that jump at least a solid point and a half.

  51. No, that IS bad. And those were the overnight ratings. The actual rating was a 2.0, the worst in Army/Navy history.

  52. Mike, well damn. Do you figure it is an even split between it being the same day as the conference championship games and the anticipated lack on competition between Army and Navy?

  53. ElCid’85, Tech played BC. As much as I would have liked to have had Miami in the ACC Championship, they weren’t.

    As a guy who played on a Delaware Wing T team in HS, I would love to see Army run the offense. It operates on the same concepts as the option and makes up for disparities in talent, size, and speed.

  54. I was too young to care but I wonder what the ratings were even in the late sixties -early 70`s? I know it was the only game on at that time -then USC UCLA later so ratings were protected-but it seemed so much more important and cared about back then. It could have also been my youthful perspective.
    THANKS BLUE BEAR for those JFK and when Navy played Eastern schedule against the tough Syracuse and Penn State teams-recollections.
    As a kid I recall the biggest upset being when heavy favorite Penn State went into NMC and we beat them in I believe a muddy game?
    I was a huge Rob Taylor fan when we actually had wide receivers that caught the ball.

  55. If I remember correctly, in the 1967 Penn State-Navy game, Navy drove the length of the field in the last less-than-two-minutes of the game to score the winning TD and extra point. Navy won by one, 24-23 I think. This was in the early years of Joe Pa’s career, and I think at the time George Welsh was an assistant on Joe Pa’s staff.

    Several Cartwright-to-Taylor passes were key during winning drive. While the ’67 team finished 5-4-1 (tied Vanderbilt, although the game-winning Navy field goal looked good to ME), I think a few games got away that they could have won. Good team: offense, defense, special teams…. TEAM.

  56. I was a Youngster for that game and it was the most exciting game I had seen at NMCM until this year’s Temple game. Wasn’t wet or we’d have gotten killed. Rob was still upset until his untimely death that the only game ball he got that year was for the Vandy game and none for the Penn St. game. And the really bad lose that year was to William and Mary, plus a lose to a mediocre SMU team in Dallas. But they got the only win against Army (who turned down a Sugar Bowl bid) of my sojourn by the bay.

  57. the only recall I had about that game was from the NY newspaper writing about it- probably the daily.
    That and watching the Prudential College scoreboard or was thet Mutual Of Omaha?
    When they would break and show the scores on that giant Wrigley type scoreboard that was so huge in the background- I think it was only at halftime and after the game.
    I do recall many of the games from those 1966-1970 years being fairly close but our records were never reflected of that.
    Mike Letteri?
    Roger Lanning?
    2 names I recall from my youth those days.
    We used to get ND replay a week after all ND games with Lindsay Nelson and the Navy ones were always highly anticipated.
    It wa sonly Army-Navy and those replays- I dont recall Navy ever being much on National at all.
    Now look how spoiled I am seeing every game- kinda takes away some of that magic of my youth watching the big scoreboard update by hand and looking for that NAVY.

  58. That Penn State game had Ted Kwalick at TE and I recall Daily News had color sections on Sunday and there was a picture from that game. I was so thrilled since I never saw Navy pictures there most times.
    But when did Rob Taylor pass on? I dont recall ever seeing anything about that?

  59. He was killed in a motorcycle accident this summer.

  60. I am sorry for that-he was my favorite as a young man.

  61. Bluebear – I recall that 5-4-1 record in ’67. We beat three teams (including Army) that finished the year at 8-2. That was my class’ only win against Army. We tied 7-7 my plebe year. I think Penn State was one of the three but I’m not positive. I remember the Penn State win was the last time we played them. I know it was a one point win but I thought it was 7-6. John B. Cartwright was the QB that year. He later became a Baptist minister (Calgary Independent Baptist Church in Philadelphia/Morton, Penn. Google him for more info. Several years ago I purchased a highlight video of the ’67 season (now I’ll have to find it at home) which he put together as a fund raiser for his church. If you write to his church, you may be able to still purchase it.

  62. I just reread the Wikipedia article on John Cartwright. It was “powerhouses” Penn State, Army, and Syracuse that we beat that year.

  63. was in a jock company 1965. Cartwright, Spears, Leiser, Norton, Roodhouse, Wong and about 6 – 7 jv’s. Soccer, lacrosse, gymnastics and track captains in same company. Biggest issue discussed by upper class was that Elias(thought he was worthless, not too many nice things said about Corso either) wanted to duplicate Roger the Dodger with 3rd class Cartwright when all, repeat all upper class wanted their classmate Bickle (?)as QB. He was the classic drop back passer. To this day they still say they would have had a better season with Bickle in there instead of Cartwright. Grudgingly admit that John Cartwright was best for 66 and 67.

  64. Hey Mike-
    Was there ever anything in the archives here about Robs death?
    I have been googleing all over and cant find any mention of it and I would have thought I would be able to see a write up somewhere?
    Maybe not?
    Thanks

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